Some people commenting here believe that those who oppose G12 do so because they are lazy and aren't willing to make an effort. That simply isn't true and I don't wish to be offensive but I think this view is born of a defensiveness and a lack of empathy - after all, when you are in a G12 church nothing is able to shake your faith in G12. Speaking for myself, I went on mission trips and relished the challenge and the chance to test and expand my faith, the challenge of speaking publicly about it, and the thrill of being put in new and testing situations. My reasons for being wary of G12 go much deeper than simple laziness.

I had many positive experiences there, but that was more to do with the passion for God and strong community I encountered there than with the G12 vision.

I agree with other posters here that the G12 places a heavy burden on the congregation.

My experience of G12 cell group was turning up at somebody's house once a week where they talked about the Bible. I found it really uninspiring as there was no real engagement or debate or depth, it didn't relate to my actual experiences in life at all, yet if I didn't go I knew I was being a 'bad' Christian and I also knew that I would get a lecture about not being dedicated enough.

The church talked about relationship, and how cell was there to support people, disciple them and to build relationships with other cell members. However, because we only met up once a week during which we just got a Bible lecture, I didn't feel as if I could open up with these people. I didn't feel my cell leader was interested in me in except as a cell member and a potential cell leader. It wasn't a real relationship. So I wondered what the point was in me starting a cell of my own, when there was no actual benefit to attending cell. Eventually when I stopped attending that church on Sundays, my cell leader didn't even notice, because I still attended cell on Wednesdays for several months (I just felt that I had to). If there had been any real relationship there, she would have noticed I wasn't at church on Sundays, and asked why. She would also have noticed the intense depression I was suffering from, the problems I was facing from unemployment and my collapsing relationship with my boyfriend. But as long as I sat silently in cell group and tried to look attentive, she didn't notice any difference between 'Happy Me' and 'Life And Faith in Pieces Me'. Friends would tell me I looked terrible and ask if they could come round and if I wanted to talk about it, or they'd take me out for a coffee, because they could see how much I was hurting, and they would pray for me. Yet my 'spiritual mentor' didn't notice a thing, because I dutifully attended cell. I want to be clear that she was not a cold woman - actually, she was very godly and lovely - but there are some things here which were results of the cell vision:

Firstly, God had blessed her with many gifts, but leadership ability wasn't one of them. You have to have a certain kind of gifting to be a leader. The Bible is clear on this, yet the cell vision forces everyone into this mould, no matter how hard they may find coping with it. An unrealistic expectation was put on her, and indeed she met with a lot of disappointment as numerous cell members including me, got frustrated with the cell 'vision' and left the church. Had she been free to use her actual talents and giftings, among however many people she chose to build friendships with, then I suspect that she would have seen incredible fruitfulness.

Secondly, she was very busy. She had a husband and her own business to run. The argument we are given by G12 is 'Jesus had twelve disciples, so we should all have 12 disciples'. Well, I don't know about you, but I am certainly not, spiritually or in my relationships, on the same level as Jesus Christ! Jesus was able to invest a lot of time and effort into His disciples because He was in full-time ministry. When He was a carpenter, He didn't have 12 disciples. 'But the Bible says "go and make disciples!"' say the G12-ers. Well, yes, but it means make disciples of Jesus, not disciples of church members. There are numerous ways to make disciples of Jesus. The Great Commission also says '...baptizing them...' - well, does everybody have to baptise other people? Not according to G12. So why must we all be leaders, according to G12?

Thirdly, you are supposed to 'be accountable' to your cell leader. This means telling them a lot of personal things. However, I didn't feel comfortable doing this with someone I wasn't close to. You should only have to open up to people who you know really care about you, understand who you are, understand a little bit about how you think, and express a genuine interest in you, not just a 'she's my ticket to more cell members' interest in you. I know at least one other person who left a G12 church because she wondered how she was supposed to open up to someone she didn't know very well. Perhaps this is different in the Americas, but in general, British people are reserved and don't wear their hearts on their sleeves. When I told another cell leader that I felt hurt that my cell leader didn't notice just how much I needed help in what I was going through, he simply told me it was my fault because it isn't a cell leader's job to ask a cell member how they are doing; the cell member has to tell the leader. Actually, I had spoken to her several times but she was a busy woman and didn't know me well enough to know how badly I was hurting, and I didn't want to be a burden to her so I didn't push it. I understand that people aren't mind-readers, but the G12 promises a depth of communication between the leader and the cell members, and the onus should be on the cell leader to build that relationship - that's part of what leadership is, after all. This is one of the problems at the heart of G12: a system of so-called 'discipleship' replaces real relationships. Church isn't a production line and relationships aren't uniform, yet that's how the G12 treats church and relationships.

If I could sum up G12 in one word, it would be 'unreal'. There was no connection to reality there, in its teachings, its expectations or its implementation. There were people at that church who had real problems but instead of helping them people just fretted over whether or not they attended cell. Yet what good did cell do for them? What good does it do to sit and read the Bible at someone once a week? The Bible is great and everything but it has to be spoken with relevance.

I find that a lot of modern churches in developed nations have an incredible shallowness to the teaching and preaching, and I find that G12 encouraged this. I'd say that the vast majority of teaching in G12 focuses on: Victory, Overcoming, Seeing the Multitudes, Spiritual Warfare. It was so draining. There was a constant feeling that by not having a cell I wasn't Claiming my Victory, I wasn't Believing for the Multitudes, I wasn't Overcoming, I wasn't doing enough Spiritual Warfare. We used to always go to these conferences for G12 youth, and the atmosphere there always felt very strange and unreal. I think it's because they would teach us certain ideas and principles and then show us a Bible verse to back them up, yet to me a lot of it looked like they had done some serious over-extrapolation. Sometimes, they gave no Biblical backing at all to their claims. I felt that we were living in a kind of superstition. I felt that we were emotionally exploited, too. We were constanly being told about issues, usually related to our fathers or our childhoods. Most of our struggles in life, big or small, were related to 1) your father or 2) rejection issues. And then if you really couldn't 'overcome' then clearly you had a 'spirit of...'. There were numerous 'spirits of...'. You name it, there is a spirit of it which you must verbally command to flee. Nobody ever explained the biblical basis for this, or of the actions we took to overcome these spirits. The leaders would cry 'Think of all the times you've been hurt! Betrayed! Think of all the times you've been rejected!' and usually everyone would end up weeping. To me, it wasn't healing of helpful, it was emotionality masquerading as spirituality. It was pop psychology and nothing to do with God or the Bible. Often I felt used and worn out and exploited, or troubled that I hadn't been able to cry and wail (which meant being set free and healed) like other people.

Another thing. When G12 starts, pastors often say 'lots of people will leave but it's OK because the multitudes will come'. I find that attitude to be ungodly. Like the song goes, 'love the one you're with'. How loving is it to say 'I don't care if you leave the church, we'll get better people'. Love is meant to be the bedrock of the faith, after all - the Bible says 'they will know you because you love each other'. Love is what will make the multitudes come, not a 'go ahead and leave, someone else will come along' attitude. Each member of a church should be counted as important. People didn't leave because they weren't interested in saving souls, they left because the G12 was a real burden on them. They were sad to go, but their departure was greeted with a 'so what? We'll get multitudes and you won't be part of it' attitude.

The pressure was hard to bear. If you didn't have a cell, there was simply no other explanation than that you weren't spiritual enough. Church should be a place where the shy and the weak and the overworked are welcomed and loved and nurtured - yet whole swathes of the body of Christ were unacceptable because they weren't cell leaders. Whatever else you did, whatever giftings and talents you had to offer, none of it mattered nearly so much as having a cell. This of course meant that the outgoing, confident people, people who were good at forming friendships quickly and things, found a higher status than others and were considered more spiritual. A cell was a badge of honour. I remember hearing that one of the South American leaders had felt very convicted of her barreness because she 'only' had something like 60,000 cell members. We were told this as encouragement, yet for me it only served to raise the pressure and heighten feelings of inadequacy and discouragement. But if you are told that if you leave the church, you will be cursed; you are fruitless; you are the chaff and G12 soul-winners are the wheat, you have a rebellious spirit.

When the G12 is treated simply as one system among many for winning and discipling people which people can choose to take at their own pace or opt out of with no pressure, then that is less damaging. But there must also be a lot of encouragement and a lot of time invested by cell leaders - people who really are leaders - in their disciples, for no other reason than that they want to show the love of Christ to people. If you love your cell members only because they are a means to an end (more cell members) then it isn't love and it isn't discipleship. Real people have real problems and they don't always feel victorious or believe for the multitudes etc etc, sometimes they are just trying hard to trust in God for their own souls or for their families. Sometimes it's enough just to have a genuine and real love for a handful of people, instead of spreading yourself thin over twelve.

Some people have to be very discerning. The book of James discusses heavenly versus demonic wisdom . Not everyone (unfortunately) will be following Christ as they should. Test what spirit your leadership is operating in. If you are walking in the Holy Spirit you will discern. That is the right of every believer. You do not have to have a special gifting to recognize when things are a miss in your local church body. Wake oh Sleeper! (Ephesians 5)

One person said the G12 vision is not for the lazy. Its true. The bottom line is our duty is serve Christ as he serves us daily. He served his 12 in humility during the Passover supper. Its not about numbers its about service to Christ!

The premise of G12 is excellent. Pursuing your purpose, building a closer relationship with the Lord, and growing as a leader. Encounter retreats are supposed to be retreats where you receive the freedom of the Lord and deal with your past pain and issues.

However, the way they implement these things is detrimental to the church and unbiblical. For those of you who have posted who belong to G12, I understand your reluctance to receiving these "negative" posts; I was there too and one of the most faithful...when you're inside of it there is nothing anyone can tell you to stray you. Its all mind control and idol worship.

I was regularly told that those who are not in the vision are not true believers. Those on the outside don't understand the vision, its crazy to them. I was told if I leave without my leader's permission, I'm walking out from under the covering of God. I was told that my dreams could only come true serving God in his church (meaning at this church). I was told to not waste my time with those who weren't "hungry", I was told to cut off relationships with those who left because they were "rebellious".

Encounter is a weekend of emotionalism where emotional and gut wrenching images and words are used to bring about conviction in the participant. We were often told that if they weren't broken, as in crying, that they hadn't reached any real breakthrough. Whenever there was something wrong in my life, I was told that there could be a demonic attachment to me or a curse over me. I constantly lived in an overwhelming fear that I wasn't good enough because if I went through an encounter and I was set free and yet the same feelings were there, then I must not truly be free....so it was a cycle of constantly feeling like I wasn't really set free.

And I already know what those who are in it are thinking....there is an answer for EVERY argument you have in your heart against the vision. Everything. So anytime you may see something that says the contrary to what you've been taught, you can already justify it. And you have scriptures to back it up! That's what makes it even more sinister. The enemy uses scriptures too. Please research what you're being given and don't take it out of context. Truly ask the Lord to show you the truth, as he has so graciously shown me.

All I want to say is I pray dearly for those caught in this false doctrine and I pray that you all run far and fast because when man builds something and there is an idol, it will surely be torn down....

I pondered why these things were happening. i witnessed people and entire famillies leave G12 Churches because of conflict with G12 Leaders. One leader said to me, ''your cell leader is your pastor''. i said, "no, Jesus is my leader, no one else."
after this they alienated me.

Cults are all about Control and Control tactics. They fear man more than God, i fear for them because you've been misled. Anyways, to date, almighty God has been exposing more and more of G12 and conflicts.

Well, i never really was apart but i guess God led me to experience it and learn from it and to later preach against it.

Levi, Auckland, New Zealand

Recently, our church was closed by our leaders because of financial disagreements. Back then, God opened my eyes. I saw the grave abuse of the commandments of God by our leaders. We observe sabbath literaly but without God's spirit and without love, I always after looking for sunset during sabbath so that I can do my natural chores and somethimes I do immoral acts even during friday night (which is sabbath already), and i observed that our pastors are only working on sabbath, in which other day than sabbath, they are just sitting in their house or in the office of the church. God made me realize that there's something wrong.

when I was first invited in a cellgroup, my mind was full of doubts back then regarding the basic fundamentals of foundation for I understand that faith is nothing without works, thus if you have faith, you should faithfully sabbath since it is one of the commandments from the creation of the world for it is said in the Book of Genesis "God rested on the seventh day and blessed that day" and even our Lord Jesus Christ rested on Sabbath (black saturday) and there is no order or command from our Lord that the sabbath shall be changed to 7th day to 1st day. But then, the cell leader told me that salvation is instant while transformation is another process. That then, God opened my eyes and saw the real thing. I saw that while these groups don't know how to observe sabbath, yet they observe sabbath literally and spiritually. Most students who have their cells also goes to schools from Monday to Friday, and during saturdays, they either sleep on their home or just go to their cells and during sundays they just go to church where they belong as a social gathering not as a day of rest. Thus, they did literally observe sabbath.

God is so good, He is a great Father, He is merciful and loving. I was arrested by God's love. I experience literally the essence of the cross and the reason of the cross, the reason of our salvation, the expression of God's love to us. Though I know ever since that our Master Jesus died on the cross for our sins but it never imprinted in my heart, its just on the mind, now, I know the reason of my existance, I am a property of God. I am His slave.

In no doubt, pastors, leaders, priests in other religion will get mad with this group for the remmitance of their church would be lessen.

Its just a caveat for our fellow brothers, don't do focus on the name of the group or religion but focus on Christ for He is the only one who can save us. Do not exhault G12 or the name of your religion such us Born Again, Baptist, SDA, etc.. but rather exhault the Name of our Lord, our forever loving Master.

I pray for love and peace be with you all... God bless.